[docwra]

And on the "forcing" thing .......... I dont know how it is your side of the pond but we have pretty much accepted that stuff needs to be greener/cleaner in general.

This means theres a lot of legislation to move industries and products in this direction, auto manufacturers are just one of them.

By all means claim global warming is a scam and rail against it all you like but I dont think you can single out car manufacturers or legislators as the bad guys when this is being decided at government level, and the government are (theoretically at least) acting in the best interests of their electorate.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by docwra

And on the "forcing" thing .......... I dont know how it is your side of the pond but we have pretty much accepted that stuff needs to be greener/cleaner in general.

This means theres a lot of legislation to move industries and products in this direction, auto manufacturers are just one of them.

By all means claim global warming is a scam and rail against it all you like but I dont think you can single out car manufacturers or legislators as the bad guys when this is being decided at government level, and the government are (theoretically at least) acting in the best interests of their electorate.

So if it is being decided at a government level, the government is telling us what to do, right? And if we don't want to do it we still have to, right? So isn't that being forced?

As for you thinking the government is acting in our best interests... your naivety would be charming if it wasn't so troubling.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

So if it is being decided at a government level, the government is telling us what to do, right? And if we don't want to do it we still have to, right? So isn't that being forced?

As for you thinking the government is acting in our best interests... your naivety would be charming if it wasn't so troubling.

We have raised generations of children in government schools that feel this way. They know what they're doing. Pretty smart actually playing the long game.

[s346k]

i can't wait to see these hurricane chrysler engines be a flash tune away from gapping all these camaros.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by s346k

i can't wait to see these hurricane chrysler engines be a flash tune away from gapping all these camaros.

I’m a V8 guy so it pains me to admit it but that is exactly what will happen. If there was a Gen 7 Camaro with an ice v8 coming I would have actually bought a Supra instead of my recently purchased SS 1LE. Would have loved to try out that platform/something different. Boosted V6’s make stupid power from just minor modifications.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

Solid state batteries that charge in 10 minutes and offer 1000+ miles of range ALREADY EXIST, they arent magically going to become undiscovered

Sure, the cost of power might increase but that will affect your household spend a lot more - EV charging is only a fraction of my overall energy bill.

Again, I dont understand why theres so much negativity towards EVs on this forum, telling the GM employee thats quoting hard facts and the guy who owns an electric car they dont know what they are talking about ....... I dont get it.
No-one is forcing you to buy one (yet!) so why all the hate?

I'm eager to learn where I can buy one of these "10 min charge/1000+ miles of range" vehicles at a consumer level.

Maybe part of the disconnect is because you're coming from a more densly populatated area (europe in general) with smaller distances and a more moderate climate. EVs are better suited for short commutes, and above zero degrees Farenheit operation. Power distribution is a greater challenge in the western US than what you're accustomed to.

Distances here can be comparatively vast. From where I live, a round trip single day excursion to nearlest major metropolis would be around 360 miles, 3 hours each way on an interstate highway at 75 mph. That's right around the range limit for any current EV. Now, lets say it's cold, maybe some headwinds, and my used EV has already lost 5-6% of it's capacity. Probably not something you'll ever have to deal with where you live. I can make it easily on a single take of gas in my 22 year old luxury car. But you and now my own "representative" government, for my own best interests as seen fit by yourselves and not me, want to regulate it out of existance. Yes, I do resent this.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Capricio

I'm eager to learn where I can buy one of these "10 min charge/1000+ miles of range" vehicles at a consumer level.

Maybe part of the disconnect is because you're coming from a more densly populatated area (europe in general) with smaller distances and a more moderate climate. EVs are better suited for short commutes, and above zero degrees Farenheit operation. Power distribution is a greater challenge in the western US than what you're accustomed to.

You won't... Look even his gm buddy that he said "he has no idea why we'd question" even says "Any “statements” of when solid state is coming are projections at best."

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Solid State is in a position of the technology has been proven, but manufacturing at scale has not. Any “statements” of when solid state is coming are projections at best. Sorta like projections for Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles. “Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles are the vehicles of the future and always will be”. Ok, solid state probably has a bit of a firmer footing than that, but we’ll see.

For the first few iterations of solid state, expect to see it in low volume primarily luxury focused vehicles, since production scale will likely be very low and as such, very expensive. Toyota will probably lead, meaning Lexus vehicles first.

The other thing he also always fails to talk about when compariing the UK to the US is gas prices. Today in his area gas prices are $7.42/Gallon.

If gas in the US was $7.42/Gallon, "maybe" then the auto landscape would look a bit different. But I'm still not sold that it would. That being said, I just filled up my Tahoe yesterday for $3.09/gallon. His gas is over double ours. You wonder why they don't complain about EVs?

Originally Posted by docwra

By all means claim global warming is a scam and rail against it all you like but I dont think you can single out car manufacturers or legislators as the bad guys when this is being decided at government level, and the government are (theoretically at least) acting in the best interests of their electorate.

leave it to someone in the UK to tell us here in the US how our gov is looking out for us.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

If you actually read what they actually said they are not pulling back on their endgame. They are just acknowledging it will take them longer to get there.

Specifically, GM has informed investors, stockholders, and media (I count as media) that they will not reach their goal of 100,000 EVs delivered in 2023 or 400,000 EVs delivered by the end of 2024. They DID NOT say they are shifting strategy back towards hybrids or ICE.

Both Ford and GM are slowing their ramp up of EV trucks. Ford because they aren’t selling. GM says it’s because they are making engineering changes to Silverado EV and Sierra EV that will push back launch timing. I’m sure slower than expected sales of Lightning had some weight on that decision.

GM is missing their targets because they are very slow getting product out of the factory. A lot of speculation as to why that is, but they aren’t talking about that. Not to anybody. Lyriq started production more than a year ago but they are still only trickling them out to customers. And the last time I looked, they’re only delivering single motor Lyriqs. Most people want the dual motor. They’ve completely delayed the Blazer EV rollout. SS is supposed to be in customers hands now, but they are only trickling out LT versions and have pushed the SS out until mid-2024. Equinox was supposed to be launching now but it hasn’t. All of these add up to missing the 100,000 target. But they are not pivoting away from these products.

The thing that’s frustrating for me is I’ve been all set, cash in hand, to buy a Blazer EV SS. Now it’s not coming until mid-next year but the Honda Prologue and Acura ZDX that are built on the same platform with the same motors and batteries are both coming to market soon.

I did read what they actually said. What they said was costs were too high and not coming down, a fact that has been obvious all along. Too much demand for battery raw materials, etc., econ 101.

What they didn't say was the roughly $20k transaction price premium for the typical suv (say Equinox class) was unsustainable. Not enough customers to begin with, not enough of those can afford them (even with the subsidy) and they are losing money on the EV's anyway.

To sum up the hundreds of words that were spoken by many industry leaders this week is simple. Reality bites.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

I did read what they actually said. What they said was costs were too high and not coming down, a fact that has been obvious all along. Too much demand for battery raw materials, etc., econ 101.

What they didn't say was the roughly $20k transaction price premium for the typical suv (say Equinox class) was unsustainable. Not enough customers to begin with, not enough of those can afford them (even with the subsidy) and they are losing money on the EV's anyway.

To sum up the hundreds of words that were spoken by many industry leaders this week is simple. Reality bites.

Exactly. Unlike computers and other technology which absolutely gets cheaper, faster, more quickly and cheaply produced as time goes by, the raw materials required for batteries - the batteries they want to use - are a finite material with a real cost to harvest from the earth.

Ford can't just make the first 50,000 F-150 Lightnings slow and bulky then all of a sudden a better battery comes along and the next 100,000 can be produced in half the time with twice the speed and they can then cut the sticker price by $20,000 over night.

I sold computers in the 1990s at Best Buy. I know what people are thinking. That really did happen. In that scale too. There'd be a brand new Acer Pentium 100 MHz with 16 mb of ram on display with 4 in the over stock, for $1999 and on the truck comes Acer's replacement for it, a Pentium 166 MHz with 32 mb of ram for $1200.

And of course, the rich men north of Richmond are partly to blame for this as well. Forcing car companies into untenable emission situations without first proving what can and can't be done with the available technology while operating as a capitalistic free enterprise. This is getting dangerously close to, uh, NOT capitalism.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by s346k

i can't wait to see these hurricane chrysler engines be a flash tune away from gapping all these camaros.

What would have been awesome is if Chrysler could have continued and proliferated their TURBINE engines!!!

18,500 RPM and run clean and smooth on ANYTHING flamable!

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The issue here is “Lifestyle Truck”.

There are stats somewhere that split light-duty truck usage into two categories: Lifestyle trucks and focused use trucks. This is why both Ford and GM have developed Work Truck variants of their EV trucks. The general thinking is that such a large portion of the light duty truck market (F150 as opposed to F250/350 and on up) is used as lifestyle trucks they could focus the mainstream EV trucks to fit the lifestyle truck market and continue to offer F250 Silverado HD, Ram 2500 as the “truck” trucks.

The EV trucks would basically replace the trucks that are bought primarily for transportation with the occasional Home Depot run or furniture moving task. Buyers requiring the heavy hauling and towing capability would still be expected to buy the 3/4 ton and up vehicles.

Don't you think that among truck owners, this will stigmatize EV trucks as "not real trucks", in terms of capability?

[jamala00]

Jeep CEO Shocking WARNING To All EV Car Makers

[Capricio]

Wow, excellent video, pretty much summarized a lot of things I was already thinking... and finally explained why Jeeps are so overpriced!

Can't help but wonder if destroying or limiting the mobility of the middle classes is an unforeseen consequence, or an unstated objective of all this.

I guess we'll have to find a new planet or start mining asteroids to find enough lithuium.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Wow, excellent video, pretty much summarized a lot of things I was already thinking... and finally explained why Jeeps are so overpriced!

Can't help but wonder if destroying or limiting the mobility of the middle classes is an unforeseen consequence, or an unstated objective of all this.

I guess we'll have to find a new planet or start mining asteroids to find enough lithuium.

lol... Sorry, I accidently deleted my post. I thought I posted it in a wrong forum. I'm sure our resident EV experts will be along shortly to discuss why that entire video is complete nonsense.

Here is the link for anyone else