[el ess A]

EV's are just a money grab. For who? I dunno. Any time you have to incentivize consumers to buy something, then it's USUALLY a bad idea. If it was organic demand where people said "Finally! I've been waiting for this" and EV's were flying off the lots like TP in a pandemic, that is where any industry would love to be.

Cart before horse. Don't try and sell me an EV, then tell me I have to charge it outside because it may burn my house down because batteries and the infrastructure are several technical years behind the curve. Doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.

If they make the Camaro and EV, that's all fine. I'm still not convinced it's the only way to go. This EV stuff very well could be Mary's swan song in the end. She may be the reason for the upcoming demise of GM.

Note, too, they announced recently they weren't going to electrify every truck they get their hands on, in fact, they were planning on a substantial investment for ICEs for their truck lineup...wonder why? Maybe because they'd kill their sales otherwise? They're all hypocrites.

[Blue 13]

Mary the GM killer. Yep sounds about right.

[FarmerFran]

For thread #4358

EV MAN!!!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Blue 13

Mary the GM killer. Yep sounds about right.

Here’s how she’s killing GM. Today GM announced outperforming Q2 financial expectations and so they are raising the outlook for Q3. This will likely send the stock prices up. This past Thursday I attended the Automotive Hall of Fame Induction Dinner and Ceremony. Six people were inducted into the AHF, including the co-founder of Honda Motors, F1 driver Juan Manuel Fangio, Larry Woods (Hot Wheels designer). The spotlight inductee? Mary Barra.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

You’re reading my thought balloons. Has anybody looked at weather maps lately? Just asking.

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Here.

I said weather maps…you responded with a chart…here’s what a weather map (not chart) looks like lately. My friends in Houston and Phoenix are a lot more concerned about the weather map than they are about the chart. The map is what’s happening NOW. They tell me that even though 100 degree temperatures are not uncommon, having double-digit number of consecutive days over 100 is something they’ve never seen before and something they hope ends soon, never to return.

[lbls1]

I am afraid that GM is going to choke themselves on the EV blunder before they will get this equation right. IMO, if you don't want to produce the Camaro then let it die. Don't insult the heritage by resurrecting the nameplate on an unknown chassis. The EV Camaro, if its produced, will surely fail and will end up being another cancelled product line.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by lbls1

I am afraid that GM is going to choke themselves on the EV blunder before they will get this equation right. IMO, if you don't want to produce the Camaro then let it die. Don't insult the heritage by resurrecting the nameplate on an unknown chassis. The EV Camaro, if its produced, will surely fail and will end up being another cancelled product line.

No, they cannot lose here with the EV transition. Mary knows what she is doing. They have the full force/backing of our federal government and increasingly local as public sentiment generally backs the "science." They will not let GM fail.

I think an EV Camaro could be successful, just with a different buyer than the ones that feel in love with the spirit of the Camaro we know today. There are less of us each year that want a big loud V8. I would rather the nameplate die, but GM will use the brand equity as FoMoCo did on an electric Mustang.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by snizzle

No, they cannot lose here with the EV transition. Mary knows what she is doing. They have the full force/backing of our federal government and increasingly local as public sentiment generally backs the "science." They will not let GM fail.

I think an EV Camaro could be successful, just with a different buyer than the ones that feel in love with the spirit of the Camaro we know today. I would rather the nameplate die, but GM will use the brand equity as FoMoCo did on an electric Mustang.

But, and not to speak down to the brand, does the name Camaro have the same brand equity as Mustang? It seems to me that as far as Chevrolet goes, if they're looking to follow in that particular (questionable) path then the nameplate to utilize is Corvette. Even though that too will have it's own detractors. The very existence of E-Ray shows that heading down that path might just be in the cards anyway.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

But, and not to speak down to the brand, does the name Camaro have the same brand equity as Mustang? It seems to me that as far as Chevrolet goes, if they're looking to follow in that particular (questionable) path then the nameplate to utilize is Corvette. Even though that too will have it's own detractors. The very existence of E-Ray shows that heading down that path might just be in the cards anyway.

You know, i'm not sure. Chevrolet keeps releasing stuff with "Camaro inspired" elements so they must feel they do to a degree. They just called the SUV a Blazer instead, but look at it, it's a Camaro SUV from a styling perspective. I bet they had the conversation in conference rooms and the Blazer votes won.

Rumors of a Corvette brand abound. BEV Corvette is coming. We'll see if we end up with a family of 'Vettes in different form factors.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I said weather maps…you responded with a chart…here’s what a weather map (not chart) looks like lately. My friends in Houston and Phoenix are a lot more concerned about the weather map than they are about the chart. The map is what’s happening NOW. They tell me that even though 100 degree temperatures are not uncommon, having double-digit number of consecutive days over 100 is something they’ve never seen before and something they hope ends soon, never to return.

So what you want is the temperature on a specific day, but you would prefer not to have any context as to what that temperature has been on other days during the same season? So, yeah, it's hot today. Perhaps because it's July?

The chart that I provided shows how todays temperatures compare to temperatures over the last 70 years.

How can anyone argue that the climate is warming up without comparing temperatures today to temperatures in the past?

For example, note the red line (this year's temperatures) in February, or mid March. Those are clearly on the low end relative to the last 70 years. That doesn't exactly support the idea that we're experiencing warming.

That's like me saying, 'my son is tall compared to his colleagues. He's 6'2", then later you find out that he's in the NBA, whoops turns out he's actually on the short side in that data set.

That car is expensive, it costs X. How do we know that X is expensive unless we look at what other cars cost?

Sorry, the temperatures on a given day, or even over a period of a week, or a month mean exactly nothing unless you compare them to temperatures during that same time frame in the past.

[1fastz28]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

So what you want is the temperature on a specific day, but you would prefer not to have any context as to what that temperature has been on other days during the same season? So, yeah, it's hot today. Perhaps because it's July?

The chart that I provided shows how todays temperatures compare to temperatures over the last 70 years.

How can anyone argue that the climate is warming up without comparing temperatures today to temperatures in the past?

For example, note the red line (this year's temperatures) in February, or mid March. Those are clearly on the low end relative to the last 70 years. That doesn't exactly support the idea that we're experiencing warming.

That's like me saying, 'my son is tall compared to his colleagues. He's 6'2", then later you find out that he's in the NBA, whoops turns out he's actually on the short side in that data set.

That car is expensive, it costs X. How do we know that X is expensive unless we look at what other cars cost?

Sorry, the temperatures on a given day, or even over a period of a week, or a month mean exactly nothing unless you compare them to temperatures during that same time frame in the past.

Here are some scientific charts going back over 140 years and are from NASA not just some guy who goes by @RyanMaue

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs...l-temperature/

Sources matter, science matter, and climate change doesn't care about politics.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

So what you want is the temperature on a specific day, but you would prefer not to have any context as to what that temperature has been on other days during the same season? So, yeah, it's hot today. Perhaps because it's July?

What you have my friend (not kidding… I feel like I know you. And you’re cool to debate with) is a misinterpretation of what I said. It is not that I don’t care about the long term trends and trajectories of the weather, it’s just that it specifically was not what I was talking about. I was talking about “the weather maps lately”. Your response was the equivalent of you telling me that you’ve shaved 4 seconds off your best lap time at VIR and I respond by detailing my best 1/4 mile at Milan Dragway. Related, but sorta off topic.

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

The chart that I provided shows how todays temperatures compare to temperatures over the last 70 years.

How can anyone argue that the climate is warming up without comparing temperatures today to temperatures in the past?

I have not even tried to make the argument that the climate is warming. That would be debate of facts not in evidence. If I were to make an argument (I didn’t) it would be wrt climate change not climate warming. It would be to point to the increased incidence of extreme cold incidents (3 major storms in Buffalo in a two year period, one of them rivaling the once-in-a-lifetime Blizzard of ‘77, another exceeding it). I would point out the extreme warm weather events (10+ consecutive days of 100+ degree temperature across most of the southern US). Temperature is one thing. Life-changing natural disasters driven by both extremes of temperature is another.

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

For example, note the red line (this year's temperatures) in February, or mid March. Those are clearly on the low end relative to the last 70 years. That doesn't exactly support the idea that we're experiencing warming.

That's like me saying, 'my son is tall compared to his colleagues. He's 6'2", then later you find out that he's in the NBA, whoops turns out he's actually on the short side in that data set.

That car is expensive, it costs X. How do we know that X is expensive unless we look at what other cars cost?

Sorry, the temperatures on a given day, or even over a period of a week, or a month mean exactly nothing unless you compare them to temperatures during that same time frame in the past.

Could not and would not argue or disagree with any of this. ^^

[FarmerFran]

If we are going the science route, we suspect the earth is over a 4 billion years old, the last 140 years does not mean squat for what the earth has gone through.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Ford has gone very quiet on the idea of a hybrid Mustang. All indications now are that they will keep Coyote in production as long as they can, probably 2025 or 26, then it’s gone. Then they will continue with EcoBoost until they can introduce a BEV Mustang coupe. Probably sometime around 2027-28.

There are new emissions requirements coming in 2027 that might be impacting Ford introducing a hybrid Mustang. I’ll check with our powertrain forecasters and see what they say about it.

A couple questions for anyone in the know:

-Were the results of the Camaro hybrid survey (several years ago) ever revealed? Things did not seem so bleak then.

-Do the current V8 Silverados meet a treading-water figure with their segment and footprint, toward c.a.f.e. ?

-There will be updated V8 Silverados. Will they end up being hybrid V8s?

-How many Bolt EVs does it now take in what ratio with Camaros meets the c.a.f.e. average? What would that ratio project to for 2027?