Clean Side Separator still has some oil evident - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

AlanRubin · 06-30-2021, 06:52 PM

I have NO oil in the clean side with the breather catch in place of the oil fill cap.

A bad flowing PCV is bad for the engine, nothing is bad wide open. You do not need
a PCV. The only reason we have one, and not breathers, is because the EPA said we
have to burn those fumes instead of venting them to the atmosphere.

These PCV valves DO NOT have check-balls or springs in them, they are already
WIDE open. You can't put a breather filter on one of those older PCVs with a
check ball, because the valve won't open as it should. The vacuum from the intake isn't
there to open the valve. We don't have that problem with these PVCs.

So, you can drill out the PCV and attach a breather filter if you want. The CLEAN
side is essentially a breather filter, because it is also WIDE open, and goes to the
intake tube, behind the air filter. SO, it freely BREATHES at all times anyway.

The issue was with the LLT engines, the orifices in the PCV were too small. So, you
either updated to the new part that they put in the LFX motors, or you drilled the
holes out yourself; TOP to 7/64th, and bottom two to 5/64th. When I pulled mine
out, one hole was completely clogged. I Went with 9/64 for the top hole, and did
the 5/64 for the bottom ones. The corners of the valve covers immediately stopped
leaking.

Also, the reason the clean side is behind the air filter, is, at IDLE and low speeds,
where there is vacuum all the time; fresh air is pulled in through the clean side.
That mixes with the crank vapors, and gets burned. With a breather, the air is
STILL being pulled through under the same conditions. When you're at WOT, you
won't have to worry about the clean side hoses getting oil in them with the
breather on the oil fill neck. Pressure easily escapes there, the least point of
resistance.

With breathers on BOTH sides, pressure is equalized, and there will be virtually
no pressure in the crank case. There just won't be any fresh air circulating
through the motor, and that's the way it was WAY before PCVs were put on
cars for pollution reasons ONLY.

AlanRubin · 06-30-2021, 07:00 PM

It was discovered that by using a downdraft tube, case pressure could be ventilated
utilizing the airflow generated by the moving vehicle. In order to prevent a vacuum from
developing, a separate crankcase breather was also employed – essentially the breather
is just an opening that allows fresh air to enter the engine as gasses and pressure are
ventilated out.

In WWII, PCV systems were developed to allow engines to run underwater. Tanks
couldn’t utilize a downdraft tube, because the engine would fill with water if it were
ever submerged. The PCV allowed for a closed system that drew fresh air through the
intake breather, into the crankcase breather, and allowed for crankcase pressure to be
pulled into the intake, keeping the entire system closed.

The PCV had the added benefit of better fuel economy because you were burning
fuel vapors from the crank case. So, they put it in cars, in place of breathers to
increase fuel economy, and satisfy EPA regulations.

Elite Engineering · 07-01-2021, 02:28 PM

AlanRubin

Great understanding and accurate!!! Most do not understand even the basic functions of the PCV system. Those gasoline powered tanks were also also having crankcases explode from the raw fuel and oil vapors as the draft tube could not work properly at such slow speeds.

Something to point out here is the OP is running a single valve system. These need the dual valve system so vacuum suction s pulled at all times instead of part time so pressure can never build to begin with. The E2-X system being ideal for these.

As always, email our Engineering and Technical Support team direct with ANY questions related to any aspect of this often misunderstood system on our engines: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

AlanRubin · 07-02-2021, 03:02 AM

The problem with that "suction pulled at all times", is, that's not the case ALL the time.
When you are at WOT, and hard acceleration, you don't get enough suction through
the PCV, thus oil in the fresh air side because pressure is then being forced out
both sides.

I had oil in the fresh air side, not a lot, maybe a table-spoon every 8000 miles.
With that elite breather catch, it's been BONE dry. The PCV on the V6s are just
not right. I have a V6 Mustang, and I run the hell out of that, and the fresh air
side tube, is always bone dry. I am not using a breather on that car, because I don't
need to. These V6 Camaros splash oil all over the place...

Elite Engineering · 07-02-2021, 10:34 AM

Here you can see how our system generates vacuum when cam lobe overlap created reversion pulses cancel any usable vacuum from the intake manifold. The checkvalves will automatically detect the strongest vacuum available at any given time and if IM vacuum is too low, then the Venturi Vacuum generator will provide that suction so yes, as with a belt driven vacuum pump system suction is pulled at all times:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...MG_3263(1).JPG

Below shows the typical LLT/LFX installation. Note the Venturi valve connection is just upstream of the throttle body.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...an_install.png

So unlike most all others, this system actually prevents pressure from building to begin with. The new Venturi Vacuum Generating valve is available on request as it is just going into production. Combine this with the 90-95% effectiveness in stopping and containing the suspended oil and other substances you don't want ingested compared to a fraction of that with the other can designs. This is a true air/oil separating crankcase evacuation system, far more than a "catchcan" as most know.

06-30-2021, 06:52 PM	#15
AlanRubin Banned Drives: 2010 LS Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Pgh Posts: 411	I have NO oil in the clean side with the breather catch in place of the oil fill cap. A bad flowing PCV is bad for the engine, nothing is bad wide open. You do not need a PCV. The only reason we have one, and not breathers, is because the EPA said we have to burn those fumes instead of venting them to the atmosphere. These PCV valves DO NOT have check-balls or springs in them, they are already WIDE open. You can't put a breather filter on one of those older PCVs with a check ball, because the valve won't open as it should. The vacuum from the intake isn't there to open the valve. We don't have that problem with these PVCs. So, you can drill out the PCV and attach a breather filter if you want. The CLEAN side is essentially a breather filter, because it is also WIDE open, and goes to the intake tube, behind the air filter. SO, it freely BREATHES at all times anyway. The issue was with the LLT engines, the orifices in the PCV were too small. So, you either updated to the new part that they put in the LFX motors, or you drilled the holes out yourself; TOP to 7/64th, and bottom two to 5/64th. When I pulled mine out, one hole was completely clogged. I Went with 9/64 for the top hole, and did the 5/64 for the bottom ones. The corners of the valve covers immediately stopped leaking. Also, the reason the clean side is behind the air filter, is, at IDLE and low speeds, where there is vacuum all the time; fresh air is pulled in through the clean side. That mixes with the crank vapors, and gets burned. With a breather, the air is STILL being pulled through under the same conditions. When you're at WOT, you won't have to worry about the clean side hoses getting oil in them with the breather on the oil fill neck. Pressure easily escapes there, the least point of resistance. With breathers on BOTH sides, pressure is equalized, and there will be virtually no pressure in the crank case. There just won't be any fresh air circulating through the motor, and that's the way it was WAY before PCVs were put on cars for pollution reasons ONLY.

06-30-2021, 07:00 PM	#16
AlanRubin Banned Drives: 2010 LS Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Pgh Posts: 411	It was discovered that by using a downdraft tube, case pressure could be ventilated utilizing the airflow generated by the moving vehicle. In order to prevent a vacuum from developing, a separate crankcase breather was also employed – essentially the breather is just an opening that allows fresh air to enter the engine as gasses and pressure are ventilated out. In WWII, PCV systems were developed to allow engines to run underwater. Tanks couldn’t utilize a downdraft tube, because the engine would fill with water if it were ever submerged. The PCV allowed for a closed system that drew fresh air through the intake breather, into the crankcase breather, and allowed for crankcase pressure to be pulled into the intake, keeping the entire system closed. The PCV had the added benefit of better fuel economy because you were burning fuel vapors from the crank case. So, they put it in cars, in place of breathers to increase fuel economy, and satisfy EPA regulations.

07-01-2021, 02:28 PM	#17
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,382	AlanRubin Great understanding and accurate!!! Most do not understand even the basic functions of the PCV system. Those gasoline powered tanks were also also having crankcases explode from the raw fuel and oil vapors as the draft tube could not work properly at such slow speeds. Something to point out here is the OP is running a single valve system. These need the dual valve system so vacuum suction s pulled at all times instead of part time so pressure can never build to begin with. The E2-X system being ideal for these. As always, email our Engineering and Technical Support team direct with ANY questions related to any aspect of this often misunderstood system on our engines: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

07-02-2021, 03:02 AM	#18
AlanRubin Banned Drives: 2010 LS Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Pgh Posts: 411	The problem with that "suction pulled at all times", is, that's not the case ALL the time. When you are at WOT, and hard acceleration, you don't get enough suction through the PCV, thus oil in the fresh air side because pressure is then being forced out both sides. I had oil in the fresh air side, not a lot, maybe a table-spoon every 8000 miles. With that elite breather catch, it's been BONE dry. The PCV on the V6s are just not right. I have a V6 Mustang, and I run the hell out of that, and the fresh air side tube, is always bone dry. I am not using a breather on that car, because I don't need to. These V6 Camaros splash oil all over the place...

07-02-2021, 10:34 AM	#19
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,382	Here you can see how our system generates vacuum when cam lobe overlap created reversion pulses cancel any usable vacuum from the intake manifold. The checkvalves will automatically detect the strongest vacuum available at any given time and if IM vacuum is too low, then the Venturi Vacuum generator will provide that suction so yes, as with a belt driven vacuum pump system suction is pulled at all times: https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...MG_3263(1).JPG Below shows the typical LLT/LFX installation. Note the Venturi valve connection is just upstream of the throttle body. https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...an_install.png So unlike most all others, this system actually prevents pressure from building to begin with. The new Venturi Vacuum Generating valve is available on request as it is just going into production. Combine this with the 90-95% effectiveness in stopping and containing the suspended oil and other substances you don't want ingested compared to a fraction of that with the other can designs. This is a true air/oil separating crankcase evacuation system, far more than a "catchcan" as most know.