[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Lots of planning

That seems like lots of planning. Lots of work.

I go on long trips too. Drive from Cleveland to Greenville SC every summer. We get gas, food, and pit stops when we feel like it. On the fly. Like a road trip should be.

Way too much planning and thought going on there

[90503]

I like my Impala and it's mileage for longer...300 plus miles....5-600 round trip, over 500 miles on one tank...Gas up maybe once on the road...It's good to make a stop anyhow...

For an EV it would have to be a very low priced economy model. The around town trips could very easily be less than 50-100 mile range each day, if not zero. I would not be interested in a 40, 50, 100K Ev. and would not use it for longer trips. It would be major overkill...and with the Impala, unnecessay.

GM should make a Volkswagen bug type cheap-o EV for around town, charge at home/overnight, no need for highway fast charge....and price it very, very affordably...like 10K for new....A true entry level EV....All that is available now is too pricey and overly equipped for what is needed by most around town...

[Devstrike]

Our 20 Subaru Legacy on its first road trip did 480-515 miles per tank with the 2.5L and while yes if you time in the food that can take time as well but for me its not much more than 15 minutes combined I choose my exits wisely and in rural stops of the trip and done this for years (If my wife is with me it can end up being up to 20-25 and yes I keep track of time fuel etc on these trips). Having an EV is not an issue for local stuff and the charge is more than enough on all of them to handle probably 2 days for most people. On road trips for me doing the math and comparing it to the Subaru which end up being the road trip car for now no EV in the Subaru's price range can manage to keep up with the Subaru for time of trip. I will take your word for it on the Camaro though since I have not taken mine on a road trip. Most of the family events happen during the winter in New England and I rather play it safe and take the Subaru. Math by math comparisons comparing an EV to that Subaru the Subaru arrives in CT from KC 3-5 hours earlier depending on weather traffic etc. Wife and I did a ton of research and test drives before we chose the Subaru for our daily driver.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

That seems like lots of planning. Lots of work.

It really isn’t. It took me longer to type all that than it takes me to figure it out.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

I like my Impala and it's mileage for longer...300 plus miles....5-600 round trip, over 500 miles on one tank...Gas up maybe once on the road...It's good to make a stop anyhow...

For an EV it would have to be a very low priced economy model. The around town trips could very easily be less than 50-100 mile range each day, if not zero. I would not be interested in a 40, 50, 100K Ev. and would not use it for longer trips. It would be major overkill...and with the Impala, unnecessay.

GM should make a Volkswagen bug type cheap-o EV for around town, charge at home/overnight, no need for highway fast charge....and price it very, very affordably...like 10K for new....A true entry level EV....All that is available now is too pricey and overly equipped for what is needed by most around town...

This one has a 238 mile range.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In a little bit I will be taking an 850 mile trip in the Camaro. I get about 350 miles to a tank on the highway. The next EV we are considering buying will have at least a 300 mile range, so let’s use 300 as the “stop to refuel” number.

I’ll drive the Camaro 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway. Fuel up (5 minutes). Hit a drive-thru (5-10 minutes). Somewhere in there I’ll hit a bathroom, but I’ll assume it’s baked into either the refuel time and food time, so 15 minutes. I’ll have to do that twice, so 30 minutes.

If I were driving the EV I expect to buy next year, I’ll drive 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway to a DC Fast Charger and plug in. While it’s plugged in I’ll use whatever food joint that is associated with the charger setup. The EV that I expect we will buy can ad 76 miles of range in 10 minutes charging time. So I’d plan a stop for 30 minutes, get food, bathroom breaks, back on the road with an additional 228 miles of range. I might have to do that two more times, but the second time I could recharge only 10 more minutes to get enough range to finish the trip. So now I’ve spent 70 minutes in recharge time for the complete trip. Repeat the process going back home. So now I’ve used 2 hours 20 minutes for “refueling” with the EV, vs 1 hr for the Camaro. For what would be about 24 hours of travel time, I’d be good with that. I do this sorta thing 2 or 3 times a year. For this trip I have coming up, I’m considering driving 8 hours and doing an overnight stay. If I did this with an EV, I wouldn’t have to have the 3rd stop, because I would just charge the vehicle overnight.

Now the flip side. With the Camaro I refuel every 5-8 days depending on how good the weather is and how often I go to the dragstrip. Roughly $25 per fill-up (I get e85 for $1.99 or it would be much more). So roughly 30 fill-ups during the portion of the year that the Camaro sees the light of day. Assume 5 minutes / fill-up. So 2 hours 30 minutes spent putting gas in the car and about $7,500. With the EV, every morning it wakes up with “a full tank” whether I need it or not. And the electricity would cost me a lot less than $7,500 for a full years usage, not just part year like the Camaro. The only people who worry about how long it takes to charge an EV have never spent a week with an EV.

This is all wonderful and on paper it looks great. And maybe it is for you, but right now it is not for most people. Will it be in the future, we shall see.

For me I can just about use your example except my trip is is closer to 450 miles and I can stop 0 times in my truck for fuel.

And as for the EV what do I do when at my final destination and cannot recharge there? That is an additional stop before my destination to charge.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In a little bit I will be taking an 850 mile trip in the Camaro. I get about 350 miles to a tank on the highway. The next EV we are considering buying will have at least a 300 mile range, so let’s use 300 as the “stop to refuel” number.

I’ll drive the Camaro 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway. Fuel up (5 minutes). Hit a drive-thru (5-10 minutes). Somewhere in there I’ll hit a bathroom, but I’ll assume it’s baked into either the refuel time and food time, so 15 minutes. I’ll have to do that twice, so 30 minutes.

If I were driving the EV I expect to buy next year, I’ll drive 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway to a DC Fast Charger and plug in. While it’s plugged in I’ll use whatever food joint that is associated with the charger setup. The EV that I expect we will buy can ad 76 miles of range in 10 minutes charging time. So I’d plan a stop for 30 minutes, get food, bathroom breaks, back on the road with an additional 228 miles of range. I might have to do that two more times, but the second time I could recharge only 10 more minutes to get enough range to finish the trip. So now I’ve spent 70 minutes in recharge time for the complete trip. Repeat the process going back home. So now I’ve used 2 hours 20 minutes for “refueling” with the EV, vs 1 hr for the Camaro. For what would be about 24 hours of travel time, I’d be good with that. I do this sorta thing 2 or 3 times a year. For this trip I have coming up, I’m considering driving 8 hours and doing an overnight stay. If I did this with an EV, I wouldn’t have to have the 3rd stop, because I would just charge the vehicle overnight.

Now the flip side. With the Camaro I refuel every 5-8 days depending on how good the weather is and how often I go to the dragstrip. Roughly $25 per fill-up (I get e85 for $1.99 or it would be much more). So roughly 30 fill-ups during the portion of the year that the Camaro sees the light of day. Assume 5 minutes / fill-up. So 2 hours 30 minutes spent putting gas in the car and about $7,500. With the EV, every morning it wakes up with “a full tank” whether I need it or not. And the electricity would cost me a lot less than $7,500 for a full years usage, not just part year like the Camaro. The only people who worry about how long it takes to charge an EV have never spent a week with an EV.

Having owned a Tesla for the past couple years now I agree with your assessment. I do not have range anxiety. I charge at home and always leave with a "full tank" so to speak. My $300 per month in fuel costs with have been replaced with $25 in electricity costs. The more you drive the more you save. The maintenance on EVs is also much lower, no oil changes, brake pads typically last twice as long due to regen braking, no other fluid changes/flushes,
transmission, etc. You just rotate and replace the tires and refill the washer fluid. Motor and battery are warrantied for 8 years and rated to last over a million miles.

As for taking trips, it is not as complicated as it is made out to be. On a Tesla, all the supercharger locations are located on the built-in navigation system, they even share real-time info on how many charging stalls are available. You simply enter your destination by typing or speaking it and the system figures it all out for you. It tells your where you will need to stop to charge and for how long and it is very accurate. As mentioned above, most folks take a quick break to stretch the legs, hit the restroom and grab a snack. Even if you don't want to do those things you can sit in the car with everything on (AC/Heat) and watch the built in Netflix theater on the large display and car sound system or catch up on email or social media while you supercharge. It never really feels like an issue and the fuel savings make up for it.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

This is all wonderful and on paper it looks great. And maybe it is for you, but right now it is not for most people. Will it be in the future, we shall see.

For me I can just about use your example except my trip is is closer to 450 miles and I can stop 0 times in my truck for fuel.

And as for the EV what do I do when at my final destination and cannot recharge there? That is an additional stop before my destination to charge.

Oh, I fully agree it is not for most people, anymore than a Camaro is not for most people. I happen to be one of those rare birds that can fly with both flocks. Truth be told, the long range EV is probably a better fit for more people than a Camaro is across the board. It’s just the way the vehicle driving public is segmented.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

This is all wonderful and on paper it looks great. And maybe it is for you, but right now it is not for most people. Will it be in the future, we shall see.

For me I can just about use your example except my trip is is closer to 450 miles and I can stop 0 times in my truck for fuel.

And as for the EV what do I do when at my final destination and cannot recharge there? That is an additional stop before my destination to charge.

You are correct but you can see exactly by using this tool, which is basically what happens in the onboard system in the car. For longer trips, ICE based vehicles are still more convenient, for local driving around town EVs are super efficient.

https://www.tesla.com/trips

[bigd1276]

Supply/demand. As more and more people go EV and more and more people need to charge up, what happens to the price to re-charge? I think I may know the answer.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by bigd1276

Supply/demand. As more and more people go EV and more and more people need to charge up, what happens to the price to re-charge? I think I may know the answer.

The energy companies are going to get their money one way or another. You are correct in the fact that as more EV's hit the road and less people use gas, the more the charging stations are going to charge.

These types of threads are on the Harley forums too and they all end the same way this one is. Either you are an EV guy or you are no. I'm not.. at least not right now. No one is going to convince the other side to cross the line.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by jamala00

The energy companies are going to get their money one way or another. You are correct in the fact that as more EV's hit the road and less people use gas, the more the charging stations are going to charge.

These types of threads are on the Harley forums too and they all end the same way this one is. Either you are an EV guy or you are no. I'm not.. at least not right now. No one is going to convince the other side to cross the line.

I wish the powers that be that run this forum understood that.

Glad someone else understands this.

[bigd1276]

My point being at some point the "cheaper to re-charge vs. fill-up " debate will no longer be valid. Then the question becomes where do we get all of this electricity from?
Windmills?
Solar panels?

[dpevans]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In a little bit I will be taking an 850 mile trip in the Camaro. I get about 350 miles to a tank on the highway. The next EV we are considering buying will have at least a 300 mile range, so let’s use 300 as the “stop to refuel” number.

I’ll drive the Camaro 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway. Fuel up (5 minutes). Hit a drive-thru (5-10 minutes). Somewhere in there I’ll hit a bathroom, but I’ll assume it’s baked into either the refuel time and food time, so 15 minutes. I’ll have to do that twice, so 30 minutes.

If I were driving the EV I expect to buy next year, I’ll drive 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway to a DC Fast Charger and plug in. While it’s plugged in I’ll use whatever food joint that is associated with the charger setup. The EV that I expect we will buy can ad 76 miles of range in 10 minutes charging time. So I’d plan a stop for 30 minutes, get food, bathroom breaks, back on the road with an additional 228 miles of range. I might have to do that two more times, but the second time I could recharge only 10 more minutes to get enough range to finish the trip. So now I’ve spent 70 minutes in recharge time for the complete trip. Repeat the process going back home. So now I’ve used 2 hours 20 minutes for “refueling” with the EV, vs 1 hr for the Camaro. For what would be about 24 hours of travel time, I’d be good with that. I do this sorta thing 2 or 3 times a year. For this trip I have coming up, I’m considering driving 8 hours and doing an overnight stay. If I did this with an EV, I wouldn’t have to have the 3rd stop, because I would just charge the vehicle overnight.

Now the flip side. With the Camaro I refuel every 5-8 days depending on how good the weather is and how often I go to the dragstrip. Roughly $25 per fill-up (I get e85 for $1.99 or it would be much more). So roughly 30 fill-ups during the portion of the year that the Camaro sees the light of day. Assume 5 minutes / fill-up. So 2 hours 30 minutes spent putting gas in the car and about $7,500. With the EV, every morning it wakes up with “a full tank” whether I need it or not. And the electricity would cost me a lot less than $7,500 for a full years usage, not just part year like the Camaro. The only people who worry about how long it takes to charge an EV have never spent a week with an EV.

The battery tech GM is using is closer to 400+ miles per charge and most people are pretty much ready for a break after 400 miles. Stop in for a 1.5 hour dinner rest break and you're ready to go another 200 before you park it and charge it for the night. Tesla lith tech is limited to 300-350 the Ultium tech range is 400+. At about .15 a KW a 100 miles will cost you 3.50-$4 at $3 a gallon at 20mpg a car will cost $12 per hundred not including the cost of maintenance. People and corporations will start flocking to electric due to the cost savings once electric cars are priced for the masses. Need to start building the infrastructure to handle the KWs needed and soon.