Nurburgring Track Settings....Answers
 

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518611

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508671

Please take a look at these threads and the Ask Al forum. We have an opportunity to find out a lot of info/tips/suggestions, etc. used by the Camaro Team for optimal track performance..

I hope you find this useful and will support the poll to get info released that we could all perhaps find helpful at the track.

Thanks for listening!...and vote your support for a "track" topic.

The info will not be useful, unless you’d like to set your own ZL1 1LE up for the most unique and demanding track on planet Earth, in Germany, for the same driver that set the lap for GM.

Outside of that the information will just be novelty.

At least a rough idea of what wasn't "factory preferred" or what might have been a little "outside the factory range" would still be useful.

Maybe they found a "factory freak" that was particularly suitable for track duty in general, or that allowed even more aggressive settings. Wouldn't you want to know this?

FWIW, the car in my sig rolled off the delivery truck with cambers almost a quarter degree beyond the official factory negative "limit", so this can and occasionally does happen.


Norm

You're kidding right?

GM had EVERY Gen6 Project Engineering Team out there applying EVERY TWEEK and Performance Enhancement available in their Bag of Tricks.

Obviously, you've never been involved in and Automotive R&D or T&E.

Having the ability to have an insight of the Gen6 Team's on-site applied adjustments of the Record Setting Gen6 Nurburgring Car is invaluable, to say the least.

Mr. P/H
Lifetime Member of the SAE-Society of Automotive Engineers (International)

You are correct. GM surely had many engineers and team members out there doing everything possible......specific to the exact track they were on, and specific driver. Both of our points aren’t mutually exclusive.

Here are 2 irrefutable facts:
1. Different tracks require very different setups. If you don’t understand this I don’t think I’m the one without enough involvement in track specific R+D.

2. Different drivers prefer different handling characteristics.

So unless you are minimally heading to the Ring anytime soon, and happen to be the professional driver who threw down the record lap......the data is nothing more than novelty.

Here’s another way to Understand it:

If the entire Gm team headed with that car to say, Tsukuba, or Streets of Willow....with a DIFFERENT DRIVER.....you don’t think they would make any adjustments to the car? Surely you’d agree they would. That’s my point. The ring lap settings won’t translate to your car on a different track with you driving. Fun to know, sure! But entirely novelty data.

I agree that knowing what the exact settings are may be trivial and only apply to that track/driver. But if the Camaro team can provide details on their thought process behind why they made the adjustments they did then that could be applied to other tracks that people visit.

For instance if they used the front ride height adjustability to lower the front end because car would be more planted and stable at the speeds they would be reaching on the Ring then that could be applied to faster tracks like Road America where I know people in C5 Vettes with much less power can hit over 150 mph. Then also with the higher speeds reached maybe they adjusted the rear sway bar to provide a little more under steer to again make the car more stable at higher speeds.

Again duplicating the exact settings for any other track is likely not going to be the optimum set up at a different track. But the thought process and reasoning behind why they made the adjustments they made could be very helpful to someone when deciding what type of adjustments they may want to make on their own car for what ever track they are going to next.

So you acknowledge that settings will change between different tracks. You didn’t (appear) to consider Driver talent and driving style. What if the ring driver style is overly agressive requiring more camber than the average driver? What if he was soft on the tires requiring less camber? How did HE like the rear tow setup for turn in/corner exit? Did he prefer a stiffer rear for easier applied over steer? Or maybe softer rear for more understeer propensity in high speed corners?

^^^These are all real life considerations that absolutely factored into the lap record settings, that likely will not translate to 99.99% of people who would read the data from GM if they released it.

I am in total agreement if would be “fun” to know.....but that’s all it will be. Any assumption that replicating the settings on our own cars, on our own tracks, will result in faster lap times is pure BS.

Understood.

But how would starting from what they did for the 'Ring - whether "exactly" or only approximately - be any worse than starting from the 100% factory preferred settings/pressures/etc. that are almost certainly conservative/understeerish? Or if you're a more cautious sort of person, starting from somewhere between 'stock' and 'Ring' instead of having to start off guessing where that might be? Either way, any sane or halfway intelligent driver/DIY chassis tuner is going to experiment a bit further if he finds it doesn't suit him personally.

Personally, I think having two datasets representing a wide range of driving to work with has got to be better than only the conservative one that was blessed for general release to drivers of unknown and quite possibly little talent - for his street duty.

This is less about copying the precise numbers and settings than using the insights that they might provide. Suppose - and this is just an example with numbers for illustration purposes only - a 'Ring camber setting happened to be -2.65°. I'd be more than willing to round that off to -2.5(ish), set something like -2.5° or maybe only -2.2°, and call it close enough for a first cut. Better than starting with -1° or whatever factory preferred might be, and not having any basis for how far you might want to or have to go.


Norm

Do you have a 6G Camaro? The track based models come with a high performance supplement with exact alignment specs for a baseline for track use.

Wouldn't knowing whether they used those settings for the 'Ring or something else be useful? If different from the supplement, I'll still take 3 data points over only two.

"Do I have a 6G Camaro?" Does it matter?


Norm

Ah, yes absolutely, as I was inquiring if you were aware the 6G owners manual actually includes track specific alignment recommendations. Without owning one you likely wouldn’t know that.

You were making comments about alignments for street use and whatnot, obviously unaware GM already provides guidance for track specific conditions.

But hey, if the alignment preference of one single professional driver for his individual driving style, on the most unique track on earth is what you think your car needs.....then I guess you totally need to know the ring lap specs!!!

Actually, I do know about the supplement. Even have a .pdf copy (actually managed to download it twice). Got .pdf's of most of the 5th & 6th gen basic O.M.s as well.

I'm not your average Mustang owner. Probably not your average car enthusiast either. I'm also not afraid to deviate a bit from other peoples' suggestions.


Norm

I would be more interested if we got the settings used during the MT test at Laguna Seca.

Me too :thumbsup: