No more V8 for 6th gen Camaro?
 

I'm getting very tired of seeing all over the forums that Camaros are going to lose a V8 option (anytime in the at-all foreseeable future), and everyone deserves a rant every now and then I think, so it's my turn...

Now... We all know that GM has made many, many huge mistakes, but they (specifically the Camaro team) are not stupid enough to believe that killing the V8 Camaro won't totally ruin the desire from the faithful and ultimately murder sales, despite the majority of sales traditionally coming from V6 cars. For one, a lot of the V6 owners hope to upgrade to a V8 when they can afford it and a lot do just that, but it's a lot more then that.

Buyers expect a Camaro to be a front engine, RWD car with an available V8. The GM Camaro team has been in tune with us customers more than ever in history, and they're Camaro people too, so stop worrying about it so much and just keep the faith. :thumbsup:

On the Big Brother side of things... As of my current understanding, the gas mileage requirements that car manufacturers have to meet are averaged across the lineup. For every V8 car or truck GM sells, they sell tons more of the smaller, more efficient cars and trucks, and they're getting more and more efficient and more desirable every year, as well as the PHEV's and all-electric cars becoming increasingly available on the higher-end of the econo spectrum. That's just on top of the newer traditional econo cars that have been getting good reviews and putting out great numbers.
What this means is that a number of gas guzzling options can be had while still satisfying the average numbers GM must meet. Above all that, even the numbers from those "awful planet-killing, nature-hating, obnoxious, crude, and just plain selfish" V8's are going in the right direction, not only in mileage but in power as well! Take that, tree huggers! But I digress...

I don't foresee this method of forcing efficiency numbers on them to change any time soon other than making the requirements stricter over time, but I am far from an industry expert, so take that for what it's worth.

In short, don't at all worry about whether or not there will be V8 Camaros for years to come. If they do go for substantially improved efficiency in the Camaro, the smaller turbo engines might be the way they do it, but they will absolutely not kill the V8 Camaro. Mark my words... (and if I'm wrong I have no problem standing corrected).


Here are my predictions (speaking in general terms):

The 5th gen will get a couple more engine offerings/replacements and tweaks yet, but I don't see any paradigm shifts for the rest of this go-round.
The 6th gen will probably have the LT1 as the base V8 (man I hate it when they dig up retired designations), some better form of V8(s) in the higher performance models, and possibly (hopefully) the twin-turbo DI 3.6, and potentially even a 4-cylinder turbo base engine. I won't rule that out because the structure is already in place, and it is a solid performer as 4-cylinders go. It's no 2.5 Iron Duke, that's for sure! Tuned for "torque" and minimal turbo lag, I'm sure it'd move along a ~3400 lb car just fine.
However, I still don't think it's likely.

If they do a TT V6 I'll be in love and would probably take it over the V8. As long as they did it right, it would be stupid easy to eclipse the V8 power. That's why I love turbos. On the other hand, can't beat the sound of that traditional and ever-present musclecar V8 thumping under the hood. :thumbsup:

There will always be a v8.

These has all been said so often since 2009.:facepalm:

Yeah, even though I own the V6, I highly doubt they will kill the V8 either. I see them working on them getting better efficiency than ever rather than just doing away with it completely.

A twin turbo V6 would be awesome and without a doubt popular. The V8 was the Camaro back in the late 60's and ever after. You don't have to own a V8 to even recognize its importance to the car. Plus as long as the competition continues to hold onto a V8,there's no way Chevy would drop it. I think we'd see that from Ford before we saw it from anyone else. So I agree, everything is just speculation as of now. It's way too soon to know anyways.


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Their doing away with the V8 for sure......then puting a V12 in it :D

No worries here. No V8, no Camaro for me. It's that simple. It's going to be alright. ;)

Anyone remember the commercials for the early 4th gens?
The two kids in the bedroom listening to cars drive by and guessing what they were?
The Camaro rumbles by, and the kid lights up! 275HP LT1 Z28 Camaro!
Dang near top of the heap as far as affordable sports cars. The LT4 was the one to have or even the SS when the LS1 was offered. 305HP! No way!
A V8 Camaro is the dream car of millions. I doubt it is going away in the next decade or two.
HP numbers aren't everything.
Having the V8 is a symbol that you have a true sports car, even if turbo 4cyl cars eat you up. :)
The V6 puts out more HP than any 4th gen, BUT it doesn't have the same status.

I doubt the 5th gen sixers will end up like the 4th gen RS models as quick. The 4th gens were fun, but not built extremely well. The Z28 and SS were the ones that stood out. A 6 banger can be had for a couple hundred bucks right now.
The new 6 cyl will hold their own for years to come. They are WELL BUILT cars!

This is not a V-8, V-6 debate, just stating how I see it.

What is the first question anyone not familiar with different models asks when you pull up in your Camaro????

Is that a Mustang?:sm0:
:facepalm:

The V8 isn't going any where. CAFE means Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It is an average of all the cars a company produces, it doesn't mean every car has to be at that number or higher. Cars like the Volt and the Eco models pull the average up so that there is room for performance models. Even the fuel economy for the V8 equipped vehicles are improving. The biggest reason we know the V8 isn't going any where is the existence of the Gen V V8. Development costs for a new generation LS V8 are huge. No company would make an investment like that if they were planning on not using them extensively for the foreseeable future.

I agree, it won't die out completely but I can see around 2025 when CAFE is really stepping making cars have 54+ mpg, that V8s will be for the rich only. Forget the working man affording a V8 in this time frame. It'll be for upper class to drive IMO as it is for those who drive vettes. Not all Vette drivers are upper class btw. I just think that the V8 will probably slow in production to about 1000-2000 a yr as like that of a ZL-1 ect. It won't be extinct, just a dream for many. Get em while they're hot!

I predict HP replaced by FP.

The LT1 works with the Alpha chassis.

That is all.

The day GM removes the V8 from a Camaro is the day that pigs fly.






http://www.politifake.org/image/poli...1261611675.jpg


:confused0068:

Right...

Like GM wouldn't get rid of the likes of Pontiac, Olds, or Hummer...

Like Chevy didn't mothball the Camaro itself for a number of years and if it's sales dip low enough, they'll stop making it again.

The V8 is here for a few more years, but with fuel efficiency numbers on the rise, it's days are numbered.

But a twin-turbo v6 cranking over 400 HP wouldn't be a bad thing...

Looking at GM past history, I think a supercharged V6 is more likely than the twin turbo. The install on the assembly line is much easier.
I for one would love to see a OEM supercharged Gen 6, then badge it an RS like he old days instead of using the RS badge as a cosmetic upgrade :cool:

I truely believe there has to be a V8 option in the Gen6.

LF3 TTV6 is already in development.

The LT1 (as I have been posting for the past few years) is direct injection, and within the next few years all engines will migrate to it. I dont see the V8 going away, but I do expect to see the single cam pushrod disapear with overhead cams like Ford (and every import) has done.

Also as we see, 4cyl & V6 will be the standard with less and less V8 offerings (look at Fords Ecoboost in the F-150.

Time will tell, but the V8 gasoline engine is getting rarer and rarer.

I found something that really was a WTF ? moment while cleaning out an old house...a 1979 Popular Mechanics magazine that had an ad for a Ford Fiesta econobox that was advertized to get 55 mpg ! So 33yrs ago they could get better milage than today,of course that had to be smog legislated to death (Thanks Cali)and the new Fiesta gets no where near 55 mpg !

Plus revised (and more accurate) EPA testing methods.

I do not think they are dumb enough to take away the V8 option but now adays you never know

285 hp :bellyroll:

So it's comfirmed then? The V6 with 300 + HP is good enough. No more v8's !

Guys....there will be a V8, and I'd say we can be pretty confident there will be a turbo 4 cylinder. The only question I have, is if there will be some sort of V6 offering.

I for one, would really love to see a 330+HP NA V6 offering, but if they come out with a turbro 4 making around 300HP/300TQ, I can then see why they might skip out on the sixer...but I hope not.

I'd love to have a lightweight 3,400lb or so Camaro, and mod the V6 into the 350 - 360HP or more range. Would be a pretty sweet ride, for a mid-upper 20K price range.

The 6th gen will certainly have a V8. Most likely the LT1 and or some derivative of it. I would imaging it would also have a turbo 4 and a V6 or more likely a turbo V6. What happens to the later models of the 6th gen and the 7th gen after that depends on sales and future CAFE regulations. If people are willing to pay for a V8 and they can be made efficient enough then we'll still have them. One thing is for sure. They are going to change. At some point they will need to resort to start/stop tech and or Hybrid techs to make them efficient enough to not kill them in the CAFE department.

I just hope that when those techs arrive there will be a way to flip a switch so I can hear my V8 idle. It would be sad to not have it idle any more. :cry:

the only reason I could see GM getting rid of the V8 option would be to push those buyers into vetts.

but as for those that think CAFE has nothing to do with it, I thank you for the lol. the people who devise and push those standards don't want any large low MPG engines............period. if they had their way, they'd do away with them all tomorrow. they may not get rid of them in this round, but don't doubt what the end game is.

Put 2 I-4 turbo's together and you have a I-8 turbo!!:sm0:V8 boys would crap the threads on that one:D

March 16, 2012, Edmunds.com:

Evidence there’s at least a semi-seismic shift underway in the U.S. auto market: a source at General Motors Co. told us the the company’s engine-production data indicate GM built a half-million fewer V8 engines in 2011 than it did just five year earlier in 2006.

Last year, GM built approximately 1.15 million V8s in North America. That compares with the roughly 1.7 million V8s GM manufactured in 2006. The drop can be attributed to a number of factors, but it all adds up to one undeniable conclusion: our market is changing.

The number of fewer GM V8s is significant, but does have to be judged in the context of how far total sales dropped off in the past five years. In 2006, when GM made 1.7 million V8s, slightly more than 17 million new vehicles were sold. America’s new-vehicle sales plunged to 10.6 million in 2009 and “recovered” to slightly more than 13 million in 2011 – so GM’s production decline of a half-million V8s came amidst an overall market decline about about 4 million units. In 2006, GM’s market share was 23.9 percent, compared with 19.2 percent in 2011; you do the math on that one.

Beyond that, a portion of the dropoff in GM’s V8 production can be attributed to the broad decline in fullsize pickup and SUV sales brought on by the recession that started in late 2008. But since the recession, another significant trend has been underway: engine downsizing. It’s happening everywhere and isn’t likely to stop unless a crude-oil volcano arises from the Badlands to bring gasoline prices back to $2 a gallon. Ford’s major engine-downsizing initiative – mass fitment of EcoBoost engines – is kicking into high gear; the company said earlier this year it aims to triple production of EcoBoost 4-cylinders and V6s, offering EcoBoost engines in 11 models in 2012 compared with seven models last year.

The German luxury-sport brands no longer are shy about hawking 4-cylinder engines in this market – BMW’s new turbocharged 2-liter already is a staff favorite – and nearly every automaker is working the downsizing equation in some fashion. Heck, the world’s largest purveyor of V12s, Bentley, even is bending to the times and axing cylinders with the addition of V8-powered Continental GT and GTC convertibles – even if its new 4-liter twin-turbo V8 does make 500 horsepower.

In fact, V8 installations for vehicles built in North America hit an all-time low in 2010, according to industry data source extraordinaire Wardsauto.com. Just 20.8 percent of vehicles built in North America in 2010 were fitted with V8s, Ward’s said, although the ratio did rise to 22.5 percent for the ’11 model year. In 2001, 26.5 percent of vehicles built in North America were fitted with V8s.

– Bill Visnic, senior editor, Edmunds.com

I feel depressed after reading that.:cry:

IMO we don't need to worry about the Corvette at all & for a while for the Camaro. I think where you see changes is what we would consider DD's that either won't have a V8 option or most people won't buy the V8.

But I have to believe the Camaro, Mustang & Challenger are safe for some time - and probably a really long time for the Corvette.

I'll go out on a limb and say i don't believe there will EVER be a time when there is no V8 available in a Camaro. They'll kill the car all together before they take the v8 from its options sheet.

This and then all they have to do is offer 12 different volt models. That'll raise the company average way up for the Vette's and the Camaro's. :)

again, what you don't get is that the people who push this stuff don't want V8's. they don't like SUV's, Trucks or sports cars. they want all vehicles to be some version of a volt. they can't do that all at once, so they simply take an incremental approach. regardless of how efficient company fleets were to become, they'll always take the position that they can be more efficient.

Camaro rumor mill history
in 1979-3rd gen to be FWD no V8
in 1991-4th gen to be FWD no V8
in 2000-5th gen (if made) FOR SURE FWD no V8
in 2013-6th gen to be FWD no V8
It's a track record like a middle east peace agreement.
lol

:chevy:

There will be V8's forever. Right now Detroit is all about the muscle NO Way any of these 3 drop the V8 option during this muscle war. What is nice is the V6 is becoming a real force with the Indy racing league getting up to 700 horsepower out of these frowned upon "6 bangers" , If they could make a Camaro with 450 HP and 35/40 miles a gallon that would be pretty sweet .

And the mid engined Corvette. :laugh:

I would say that V8's will be limited eventually to special applications such as larger trucks, and sports cars, like the Camaro, Mustang and Corvette. It may even have to be limited editions of those cars.

THIS. IS. BRILLIANT. LOGIC.

Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together will see that doubling the mileage requirement in 12 years is going to mean that they will need to add a lot of exotic technology to all cars, plus sell lotfulls of volts and "eco" things to make up for each V8.

To make up for a V8 getting 35MPG in 2025, they would need to sell "offsetting" 55MPG cars at a 20:1 ratio to get an average of 54.

Also remember that the V8 car is now competing for the sliver of sub-54MPG of production capacity with pickups and SUVs that will also not get 54MPG.

So, the V8 people will be paying extra $$$ for all the exotic tech and materials in their cars to get them to get as much as 35MPG, then they will have to pay a premium price to help lower the retail prices of the less desireable "eco" cars, so enough saps will buy them to offset their V8 car.

In essence, the V8 price will "necessarily skyrocket" in order to discourage "bad consumer choices" and subsidize the offsetting econoboxes.

Why is this so hard for some people to grasp?